Psycho-aesthetics in social media: unrealistic expectations and impacts on Self-esteem with ​​Dr Sarah Dihmes PHD

[Intro] Hey, everyone. Welcome to Facially Conscious. I'm Trina Renea, a medically trained master esthetician here in Los Angeles, and I'm sitting with my rock star co-host, Dr. Vicki Rapaport, a board-certified dermatologist with practices in Beverly Hills and Culver City, Rebecca Gadberry, our resident skincare scientists and regulatory and marketing expert, and Julie Falls, our educated consumer who is here to represent you. 

We are here to help you navigate the sometimes confusing and competitive world of skincare. Our mission is to provide you with insider knowledge on everything from product ingredients to medical procedures, lasers, fillers, and ever-changing trends. With our expert interviews with chemists, doctors, laser reps, and estheticians, you'll be equipped to make informative decisions before investing in potentially expensive treatments. 

It's the Wild West out there, so let's make it easier for you, one episode at a time. Are you ready to discover the latest and greatest skin care secrets? Tune in and let us be your go-to girls for all things facially conscious. Let's dive in.

01:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Hi, hi, hi. 

01:22 Julie Falls: Hi, everyone. 

01:23 Trina Renea: Good morning. 

01:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I can’t believe you're awake, Trina. You were at the Hollywood Bowl last night? 

01:28 Trina Renea: I was. I went to see, I thought I was going to see Abba. It was an Abba tribute band. 

01:31 Julie Falls: Did they sound just like them then? 

01:32 Trina Renea: They were from Sweden and they sounded great. They were fantastic. The whole place was packed. There wasn't an empty seat in there. It was so fun. I took my daughter and her friend, who were 13. They got all dressed up in their, you know…

01:50 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Dancing Queen outfits? 

01:53 Trina Renea: Their Mamma Mia outfits, like beachy, go-to-Greece outfits, and then they danced their butts off. It was so cute. 

01:58 Julie Falls: How fun.

01:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That is fun. 

01:59 Trina Renea: I know. 

01:59 Julie Falls: What a good mom. 

02:00 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's adorbs. 

02:01 Trina Renea: Yes, and I Uber-ed there and back, so I didn't have to deal with that traffic. 

02:06 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Do you want to go right into this incredibly important topic? 

02:10 Julie Falls: Absolutely. 

02:11 Trina Renea: What's our incredibly important topic? 

02:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Of course, psycho-aesthetics and social media, unrealistic expectations and impacts on self-esteem. And we have an amazing psychologist here today. 

02:23 Trina Renea: Oh, my God, I've been wanting to do this for two years. I'm so excited. 

02:28 Julie Falls: It's really true. When you think about what we talk about every day and the psychological aspect of skin, beauty, youth, aging.

02:37 Trina Renea: Pressure.

02:39 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: All the pressure. 

02:40 Julie Falls: Especially in this town.

02:41 Trina Renea: Me as an esthetician, oh, my God, the things that my clients say, I'm like, “Oh, my God, that's not true. Where did you hear that?” And they hear it on social media. 

And my daughter, my own daughter, the crap she brings home from Sephora, I'm like, “I'm going to kill you.”

02:54 Julie Falls: She's 14, right?

02:57 Trina Renea: She's turning 14, but this started three, four years ago. She was like she had her wish list for Christmas and I had to go to Sephora with her so she could show me what everything was. I'm like, oh, my God. 

03:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: All that pressure, so much pressure.

03:11 Julie Falls: I can't even imagine, because all I wanted was Bonnie Bell lip gloss. I can't even imagine if I had the access, like your daughter does, to look at all those stuff. 

03:22 Trina Renea: And trying to put retinol on her face. No, no. What are you doing? I come into her bedroom and I'm like, “What is this? Where did you get this? I am an esthetician.” I get so mad at her but I'm like, “Ella, take this off your plate.”

03:36 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Be a kid.

03:37 Trina Renea: Be a kid. Buy clothes. Let me take care of your skin. Stop with this stuff that they're feeding you on social media. So, I'm so excited. Do you want to introduce our guest? 

03:48 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah. Do you guys, do you want to hear all about her? 

03:51 Julie Falls: Yes, yes. Let’s hear about her.

03:51 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: So, I have a very good friend who is a very well-renowned psychologist in LA. When I approached her to come on the podcast to talk about this, she said, "No, I have somebody even better." And that is Sarah Dihmes. 

04:04 Trina Renea: Hi, Sarah. 

04:05 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And Sarah…

04:06 Julie Falls: Hi, Sarah. Welcome. 

04:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: She is a psychologist who specializes in providing services to adults, teens, couples, and parents from diverse cultural backgrounds, sexual orientations, and genders. She received her clinical training at top hospitals across the country, including Johns Hopkins and Stanford. Hello. 

She spent several years at the VA, which is in the news in LA right now because that whole— do you guys know about the whole VA lot near Westwood? It was supposed to be for the VA's and it's not. It's like a baseball field and like a…

04:39 Julie Falls: And they have them in little temporary housing all over the place. 

04:43 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But the VA's are, obviously, a very important group of people that are underrepresented and I think under-cared for. But she has spent several years at the VA where she was involved with research, clinical work and leadership. She likes to empower her clients to navigate their challenges and develop effective coping strategies. Her expertise is assisting teens and adults who are facing challenges with work, school, stress, family and social issues, which is why we have her on today. 

She specializes in self-esteem and facilitating clients to understand themselves, their emotions, and improving the quality of their relationships with themselves and with others. She sees clients virtually as well as in person. Today, she's going to hop on our podcast so we get to see her on the podcast. 

And she focuses on her clients’ well-being and provides her clients with the tools to achieve short and long-term goals to become the best versions of themselves. I think she is probably also inundated with social media and TikTok now, and we would like to enjoy her on our show today. Welcome. 

05:45 Trina Renea: Welcome. 

05:46 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Thank you so much for having me, ladies. I really appreciate it. 

05:50 Trina Renea: You have a fun job. That would be so fun to me.

05:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yeah? 

05:53 Trina Renea: Yeah. 

05:54 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Stressful. 

05:56 Trina Renea: I would love that. I love talking to people. I don't know.

05:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Maybe that's why you started a podcast.

06:01 Trina Renea: Maybe, and why I work one-on-one with clients. I'm like a therapist in there.

06:06 Julie Falls: Can we call you Sarah?

06:08 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Sure.

06:08 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Yes, please.

06:10 Julie Falls: Sarah, how did you get started in terms of this specialty, in your special area that you are kind of working in?

06:20 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Well, I have a little bit of a personal story, but then I also have a professional journey. My dissertation was going to be on breast cancer patients and so we started giving them baseline measures. We were going to measure different interventions and depression and self-esteem, but we also had sponsors. So we had Avon and some dentists and other people donating to us. 

We actually did a little makeover course with them because, with the chemo, they had lots of side effects of dry skin, their eyebrows falling out, their lashes falling out and their complexion changing. So, we did a little brow, we created a little eyeliner, gave them some color back in, some really moisturizing products and lipgloss. 

Then before we could even do the intervention, the self-esteem measures started going up and so I could no longer do my dissertation. We learned that it's not just about how you look, but how you feel about the way you look that can be really powerful. And for these ladies in particular, we were giving them back a part of their identity that, while so much was changing in their world, this was something that they felt resurfaced and was really helpful in building that foundation for them. 

07:41 Trina Renea: That’s nice. 

07:41 Julie Falls: That's so interesting. 

07:42 Trina Renea: Eye-opening. 

07:42 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's beautiful. 

07:46 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: So there are some positives to beauty and makeup.

07:50 Julie Falls: Definitely. Yes.

07:57 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: And then, I don't know, but for myself growing up as a very Middle-Eastern girl, I was struggling with, during puberty, like lots of hair everywhere and having facial hair and hair on my legs, so I would wear tights in the winter. My hair was really curly and I didn't understand how to create and achieve the looks that I wanted. I was only 11, 13, but it definitely impacted the way that I perceived myself, the way that I was with others. I was bullied at times. 

So eventually learning how to create the looks I wanted and how to take care of my skin, how to take care of my hair, it was really empowering to me to create my identity and my expression of myself. So I do think there's a big psychological component to how we look. 

08:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I have a lot of mothers ask me to talk to their 10-year-olds. It's always a 10-year-old. About what they do and what they don't need in their skincare routine. That's part of the reason why we wanted to have you on and have this topic because, I don't know if you're seeing that too, Trina, but all of a sudden…

And I'm not on TikTok. I don't really see. I know Instagram and I understand that. Obviously, I don't get fed those 10-year-old Instagram accounts. But when I speak to the 10-year-olds, I think my white coat has a little bit of a power, but not the same power that is given to the people who have accounts on Instagram, who are beautiful and they have big lips and…

09:38 Trina Renea: Or TikTok. 

09:39 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: They tell the 10-year-olds to put whatever it is they're supposed to be putting on their face. Of course, it's something that's sponsored and that person is going to make money on it. 

I'm sort of saddened by it, but I also don't know what the answer is. I think we just have to continue to support our— hopefully, the parents are there to support their children and help them understand. I'm trying to help in that five minutes I have with the patient. Have you experienced anything like this with your teens and the influence that they have, whether it's skincare or whatever it is? 

10:10 Julie Falls: First of all, a 10-year-old is not a teen. And why are they on TikTok? Why is a kid walking around with a cell phone and looking at that?

10:20 Trina Renea: Because they do now. That's where we are. 

10:23 Julie Falls: That’s where the problem is starting. 

10:24 Trina Renea: But also, 10-year-olds don't need skincare. Their skin is doing what it's supposed to do, period, until they get their puberty where they're getting acne and stuff like that and dealing with that. They don't need to put anything on their face. 

I think parents get excited because they're like, “Oh, they want to self-care. They want to take care of themselves.” So they feed into it. And the person on TikTok or social media is marketing to the mother through the child. They're getting the child to want it and the mother will buy, so it's an easy target, that child.

11:00 Julie Falls: What do you think, Sarah?

11:01 Trina Renea: What do you think? 

11:04 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I haven't had 10-year-olds yet, so I feel grateful for that. But I think that it is getting younger and younger. It's just there's almost like a social responsibility that these influencers have, because there's such a viable audience that's looking and reading this, a social responsibility for these impressionable young women and girls. I think they're looking to the influencers to see what does it take in order to be valued, respected, confident and be loved? I think they don't really understand that they're actually impacting these kids' worlds and beliefs about themselves and the world and others. 

11:54 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Do you ever go to schools and talk to big groups of children? Because you sound like you know exactly what to say to help them. 

12:02 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I would love to. It's something I'm hoping to do, but I haven't gotten a chance to do that yet. 

12:09 Julie Falls: In general, what have you seen in your patients or clients? What kind of effects from social media? How is it manifested?

12:23 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I'm surprised at how young, I guess, the girls are. I thought that my high schoolers and my college ladies, people in their 20s were safe. I thought people maybe when they started getting Botox not until they were 30 or something, but it's really scary to know that it's starting younger and younger. I think 75% of plastic surgeons said they've seen a Zoom boom from COVID of clients under the age of 30 coming up. 

I'm seeing that for sure, my high school girls, my college girls, everyone's so into beauty and what they're asking for from their parents. And then the impact on self-esteem and comparing their journey, their look to others, which is creating a sense of inferiority. That they're not good enough, that they have to lose weight, get their nose done, get injections, do different things to be good enough, to feel worthy. 

13:28 Julie Falls: I was just listening on my way here today on the radio, a man who wrote a book called Ugly, and they're turning it into a film, and it's all about this. It's all about what young women now consider beauty. What is beauty and how the norms have changed and the self-esteem and the whole thing. Have you heard of that book?

13:59 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I haven't heard of that book. 

14:01 Julie Falls: I thought, wow, that's interesting that I'm listening to this and that we're talking about this. 

14:05 Trina Renea: I want to see it.

14:06 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I hope it's going to be a positive ending. 

14:07 Julie Falls: I think so. 

14:12 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Is it coming out in a movie soon? 

14:14 Julie Falls: I think so.

14:15 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Okay. We're all going to see it, Ugly. 

14:16 Julie Falls: It's called Ugly, yeah. I guess the book was a bestseller. I don't know. I need to do more research on that. 

14:21 Trina Renea: I have to get the book. 

14:22 Julie Falls: I think they were talking about what is beauty. What is considered and how is that morphing from social media.

14:37 Trina Renea: With you, have you worked pre-social media with people who didn't have social media compared to people who have it now and how it's affecting people with their skincare and buying, purchasing? Do you see a difference in those? Is it worse or is it better or just different?

15:02 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I feel like it's the product line and the spectrum has increased so much. It used to be that you would either go to CVS and get that or maybe a department store, get Clinique, or your dermatologist. But now, there's like everything in between. It's not just those three categories anymore. 

15:22 Trina Renea: Thousands of products. 

15:25 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Yeah, onto the products. I think that— sorry, I just lost my train of thought. 

15:34 Julie Falls: Well, every celebrity, every influencer, they all have a line. That's true. But yes, there are…

15:42 Trina Renea: Yeah, just seeing the difference in the kids today with social media.

15:50 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I think that, in the past, it was a big deal if a little girl wanted to wear lipstick or borrowed her mom's mascara. Now, it's just completely accepted because it's in their face all the time, kind of increasing this different standard that they're living up to or trying to live up to. 

So not only are they comparing themselves to maybe classmates or socially, but to an entire world and to these influencers who are being paid and filtered in a way that it's completely unattainable and not congruent to what they would look like in real life. 

16:28 Trina Renea: But do you think, from your patients, that their understanding that what they're seeing on social media is not real? That they can adjust their filters and make themselves look a certain way. And that some of the stuff they say is a little bit exaggerated. Are they believing everything like that? Is it messing with their beauty habits and insecurities? 

16:59 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: It's interesting, because I believe that we all have a spectrum of who we are when we're at our best selves and we have no stress, things are going well. Other times when we're at maybe our worst selves, when we're really stressed or overwhelmed. So sometimes, I have clients, especially females, and they're like, “Yes, we know social media is fake. That's not right. I saw someone else’s post and I don't care about that.” And then I'll get texts or calls or emails from them at 2:00 in the morning, their time, saying that they're spiraling because they saw someone else's post or someone unfollowed them, or they just can't live with the way they look anymore, with their eyes or with their nose.

So, I think when they're at their best self, yes, they know it's fake and they're able to tap into that frontal lobe and higher thinking that all of us, not just kids, when you can reason. But some of the things that really negatively impact our self-esteem are these negative-dominant thoughts or cognitive distortions. I think whether it's late at night or when you're looking at other people comparing yourself or something else happens, someone doesn't call you back, you didn't get a good grade in school, that's when we're really vulnerable to comparing ourselves and allowing those negative thoughts to come in. And I think social media gives you a great platform and access to be able to infiltrate and do that downward spiral.

18:38 Trina Renea: Because when you look at one thing and then it gives you another thing in that same realm to look at, which causes the spiral.

18:47 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But it's interesting that you did say 2:00 AM. Because when my daughter was in middle school, the principal gave a lovely lecture and told us to read a book called Untangled about learning about your— do you know that book? Learning about your female middle schooler. They said, “Don't let them go on their computer at night.”

There's something about the brain at night. I don't know if it's the circadian rhythm. Maybe you can describe that a little bit, because I don't know anything about that, because they're so much more vulnerable at night. Can you elaborate on that? 

19:23 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I don't know if I could speak exactly to the different brain states. I'd have to go back to some of my neuropsych EEG training. But I know that there are different brainwave cycles that create different neurotransmitters that we go through, different times when we're sleeping. So I would think that maybe our serotonin or maybe our norepinephrine or dopamine is different, which is part of what allows us to become sleepy and go into that REM state and were not meant to be processing thoughts about comparison and standards and our own values and belief about self and others. I think at that time we're meant to be restoring our body.

So it kind of makes sense that if you have all those chemicals flooding through your brain, it'll be at a different reality than when you're supposed to be awake and have those brainwaves activated. 

20:21 Trina Renea: Luckily, now we have family plans where you can put your kid on the family plan and then you can turn their phones off and devices at a certain time. It just automatically goes off and they can't turn it back on.

20:34 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: There was a little thing on Instagram this week too. They have some new parental buttons, if their kids are saying the right age that they are. I think under 18, there are certain limitations that Instagram does. I don't know the exact details because it just came out, but they're trying because it's a big problem. They have the technology to limit either the exposure, the access or the time limit. I think parents have a lot more control over what they can allow their kids to see and do on Instagram, and I assume TikTok, but maybe not because TikTok isn't owned by an American company. Maybe one day soon it will be. –

21:15 Trina Renea: I have a client who came to me and said that she's dissolving all the filler in her face because there's an app somewhere that she found on Instagram that you can reverse. It says on the app that it will reverse your face so you can see how other people see you. 

I'm like, “Isn't that when you look in the mirror, you're doing that?” 

21:42 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But who cares how other people sees you? Don't you just care about how you see yourself?

21:45 Trina Renea: She turned it around and she started crying. She was like, "This is how people see my face?" And she burst out crying. It was the middle of the night. 

21:54 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: There you go, middle of the night. 

21:57 Trina Renea: Yeah, so that's a weird time. And she went into a complete meltdown. She went to the doctors and she has been dissolving everything in her face. I'm like, “How did that app show her herself? It must not be real.” Like, you don't look that different the way you look at yourself. I mean, you only see yourself in the mirror, which is the way people see you, right? 

22:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes. 

22:22 Trina Renea: So you're seeing yourself as people see you. 

22:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I feel like it's a cruel person who invented that app. 

22:26 Julie Falls: I agree. 

22:27 Trina Renea: Right? I mean, what is that?

22:29 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: What's the app called? 

22:30 Trina Renea: I don't know. I'm never going to promote it. Have you heard of this, this app? 

22:36 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I think there are so many body checks that my clients tell me about now that social media is pushing these body trends. I think they have them for face too. So it's like hashtag jawline check, hashtag side profile, which has over 500 million views. I guess they take a picture and then hashtag it. It's crazy.

23:02 Trina Renea: One of my clients actually just said that yesterday. She said she was doing some app where she could see her side profile. And she said when she smiles a certain way, it creates a shadow in this one part that makes her look like she has a double chin. So now she wants to go and have like she was saying filler to distract from that. 

I'm like, “What are these people watching? “

23:24 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I feel like this is so, so sad. We have that much time on our hands to look at our— I mean, obviously I'm in dermatology. I inject. I look at people's side profile. I look at their jawline. I hope I'm not contributing to this chaos because that is horrendous. 

23:39 Julie Falls: No. This preys upon the most vulnerable, the most…

23:45 Trina Renea: Social media, yeah.

23:46 Julie Falls: These types of things you're talking about. I'm sure that Sarah could tell us more than anybody that you, hopefully, have other things, people in your life. Other things that will, hopefully, take the place. 

I do believe that it's our job as parents too to bolster our children and tell them that they're good enough.

24:14 Trina Renea: A lot of parents don't.

24:16 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And as friends. You know, as people become older, they rely on their friends. Hopefully, as a friend, you will help a friend that's spiraling or is acting crazy over nothing or doing these stupid side profile apps and just delete that stupid app. That's our job. 

24:32 Trina Renea: They get curious because the person on social media who's talking about it is like, “Oh, my God, guys, like, you have to try this. It's so cool.”

24:40 Julie Falls: “I'm obsessed.”

24:41 Trina Renea: “I am obsessed with this app. You have to try it.” And when I got my side profile, I was so shocked. They make you so excited, you're like, “Ooh, I need to check myself.” And then you're like, “Uhh!”

24:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: You have to take two mirrors, look at one mirror and the other mirror and there's your side profile. I used to do that to check my hair. You do it all the time. 

25:03 Trina Renea: But Ella and her friends do these silly things all the time. It's what their life is. 

25:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Maybe they should read more books. 

25:12 Trina Renea: There's no book reading happening. 

25:15 Julie Falls: That's a problem. 

25:16 Trina Renea: Not in my daughter's school. They try. 

25:24 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I was just thinking about what you said, Dr. Vicki, in that I feel like dermatologists are similar to psychologists in some ways in that our job is to work with our client or our patient, educate them about what resources they have based on what their goals are and help them enhance their organic self to really express their identity and create their identity. But if there's a dissonance between their goal and what they want, I think that's where a lot of expectations and disappointments can lead. 

But it's hard when they're telling you what they want. And when you said, “Oh, I hope I'm not adding to this.” But all you can do is let them know what resources there are, what clinical trials that have been validated, what actual tools and techniques, procedures are safe and effective for them versus what social media is telling them, because I think that's where you can kind of go into like a danger zone.

26:33 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I think, in general, my patients are so level-headed. I imagine that's maybe not the case with you. 

26:38 Julie Falls: No, because that's why they're coming to you. There are people walking around looking like freak shows and we always say, find out who they go to so we don't go to them. 

26:51 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Yes.

26:53 Julie Falls: So, you're not going to let anybody leave your office and have, like, gigantic, weird lips. That's why they're going to you because they are like-minded, but…

27:05 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But I do have some challenging ones and sometimes I know that I didn’t get through to them, even though I tried, I tried to get through to them. How do you deal with that? Obviously, you deal with many different issues than body image and skin care and aging and beauty, but that must be challenging for you because everybody is coming to you with major issues. Do you feel like you can break through with them and help them be more confident and have higher self-esteem? 

27:37 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I try. I can only help them to the extent that they're willing to work as well. Like you said, people aren't usually coming to therapists because they're super happy and everything's great. It is important to go and just learn about yourself and know what your strengths are and go even when you don't have a crisis. But, usually, crisis is what brings people in, at least to start. 

I like to just define self-esteem as well. It's how we value ourselves, how we perceive ourselves, how we deem ourselves worthy and if we are valuable or enough. I break it down into five sections, really, when people come to me to figure out how they can help themselves and what area they are feeling inadequate to see how that could be adding to their self-esteem problems. It's really, first, you have to feel really competent as a person in many areas of your life, whether it's relationships, professional, financial, physical. 

Have a sense of belonging. Your identity, where I think that's where dermatologists can come in with the identity and how they feel like they look, as well as competence of feeling like they can achieve the way they want to look. 

But then there's also a big confidence and reliance on self. How much do you trust yourself? And then a feeling of safety and security. 

And so depending on what they are struggling with, I try to go through and ask, do you have all of these? Are we working on all of these?

We actually developed a new self-esteem scale as well that has 10 items on it, so that they can rate themselves and see where is it that I'm feeling low. That we know if you do these things, if you create a community where you feel supported and seen and valued, your self-esteem will go up. 

Are you doing self-care, which means looking out for not just your face and your body and your sleep, but having self-compassion and having a mindfulness practice as well. 

So, I try to help, but we can only help people as much as they're willing to work and see what's going on in their life too. 

29:55 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Wouldn't it be great if the algorithm made you watch positive, motivated accounts. Every third account is something really beautiful and positive. Wouldn't that be amazing? 

30:09 Julie Falls: You have to be looking for it. 

30:12 Trina Renea: If you're looking for that, they'll feed it to you. 

30:14 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I know what I'm saying, even if you're not looking for it. Maybe then I shouldn't even say the word algorithm. Maybe just the system pushes positivity, not just the negative. 

30:24 Trina Renea: I wish they would control that.

30:25 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Maybe they need the psychologist to help defining what actually you get fed information. 

30:31 Trina Renea: Do they have psychologists that work in social media platforms that help them with these types of things? Do you know?

30:40 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I think they do have people that are helping them know what will engage people for sure. 

30:48 Julie Falls: Yeah, that’s for sure.

30:50 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: That's all that matters to them.

30:50 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: And how they're measuring their success as a corporation, we aren't really sure how much social responsibility, if that's a measure of what they're looking at. Or if it's how much people are using it for how long.

31:06 Trina Renea: Well, these days as parents, we can't take our kids away from it. It's everywhere. It's all around them. Even if you restrict it from them and not give it to them, they watch it. 

I won't let my daughter get Instagram yet and she keeps asking me for it. I'm like, “Why do you want it? You're on TikTok. Isn't that enough? It's the same thing. It's just different. It's just another one you have to go on and check.”

31:26 Julie Falls: is she allowed to bring her phone to school? I know a lot of schools…

31:29 Trina Renea: Yeah, but they're starting to say you can't have it during class.

31:34 Julie Falls: I think that's a good start. 

31:37 Trina Renea: But she's like, “Oh, I was watching with my friend Catherine on Instagram, this thing about…” and I'm like, she's getting Instagram. I'm not letting her have it personally but she's still seeing it all. You can't take it away from the kids these days. You can't control it. You can't take it away from them. 

31:56 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: And I know we're talking mostly about young kids, but it's not only the kids. I remember having had a 30-year-old patient. She just turned 30. She was doing her skin check and then she wanted like a full skincare consult. Wanted to know exactly what she should use skincare wise. All this time, I gave her all. I gave her my handout and I had the skincare birthday cake that kind of breaks down what the categories are that people should use and what products I like. I recommended what she should use, because she had a little bit of rosacea. So I maybe recommended four different things. She didn't have to take four. She could take one, two, whatever.

At check out, my receptionist said that she asked if she wanted any of the products I had recommended. And she said, "Oh, no, no, no. I think I'm just going to use what they tell me to use on TikTok." 

And this is an educated patient of mine that trusts me and has been coming to me, I spent all this time. Obviously, it wasn't something that made enough of an impact on her, because I didn't have like the editing or whatever and the TikTok face or whatever. I was so offended. 

32:57 Julie Falls: I'd be embarrassed to even say that.

32:59 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I thought the exact same thing. I thought, “Wait. She did not just say that. She said that?” I asked my receptionist again. She actually said that. She said, “She actually said that.” 

I said, “Okay, fine.”

But it also makes me— I don't want to not do it in the future. I'm going to keep trying with my next patient and my next patient, but it also makes me a little leery now. It's like, do I spend that much time? I'm competing with this very powerful force, this very visual force. 

So, that was very challenging and shocking, but I'll work through it. I'll figure it out. 

33:29 Julie Falls: Amazing. What a story. 

33:32 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: My recent Instagram or TikTok story told me not to go to the dermatologist anymore. All I needed was a turmeric pad and the turmeric pads would…

33:41 Trina Renea: Oh, my God.

33:43 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: My answer for everything. I was like, “Oh.” And of course they show before and afters of other people, and there was a turmeric filter you could use to see what it would make you look like. I'm like, “Oh, my gosh.”

33:53 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Lots of technology to help sell the product. Also, there isn't one ingredient that makes everything perfect. There isn't right. 

34:01 Julie Falls: I bought those pads too. 

34:02 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Did you? What did you think? 

34:04 Julie Falls: I really like them. I like using them all the time.

34:07 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Julie.

34:08 Julie Falls: I experiment with them. 

34:11 Trina Renea: Julie is a social media person. That's where she gets a lot of her information and she tries a lot of things. 

34:17 Julie Falls: I like to experiment. 

34:19 Trina Renea: She enjoys it. 

34:19 Julie Falls: You'd be surprised how little I actually have and own. I have a friend who's in the skincare business. We take pictures and compare our drawers. And she's like, "You have nothing." Her counters, you know, it makes me feel…

I actually like those. I have some issues that I deal with, so when I see something that will address that issue, because— Dr. Vicki knows. She's my doctor. It's a tough one, a certain kind of hyperpigmentation. But, yeah, I got them. 

Now, am I going to stop seeing Vicki because I bought them? No.

34:57 Trina Renea: That’s hilarious. The thing is, is that most of the people that are out on social media, the influencers that are giving this advice, they're not trained in anything. They're just talking out of their butt. 

35:13 Julie Falls: That’s really true.

35:14 Trina Renea: Just like people when you go to a department store in the cosmetic department and they're telling you all this stuff about the products, they're just spewing marketing words out of their mouth at you. It's comical to me. I can't even, I can't deal. 

But the stuff, they don't even know what they're talking about when they're explaining something. They're just the words, the selling words. That's what influencers are doing and they're selling, and they're really good at it. 

35:41 Julie Falls: They're really good at it, yeah. 

35:42 Trina Renea: And then if you make that one click, forget it, they take you down the rabbit hole of like 60% off, 30 more % off, gift with purchase. It's so insane. 

35:54 Julie Falls: You buy one thing and then you're on every skincare.

35:58 Trina Renea: And then they're texting you every day, telling you about their new specials and they overwhelm your emails. I'm like…

36:06 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: But all that is automatic marketing. Once you purchase something or put it on something…

36:10 Julie Falls: Yes. Or all you have to do is search for something and then they'll follow you everywhere. 

36:13 Trina Renea: Once you give them your phone number and email, it's over. You don't even have to give them your phone number. They find you. 

36:20 Julie Falls: They will find you.

36:22 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: This is wonderful. Do you have any last thoughts? Hopefully some positive ones? 

36:28 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I think that I do like the fact that people are really promoting self-care these days. So even just using your products, doing your face wash and your serums and your moisturizers, but maybe pairing that. Since you're already looking in the mirror, pairing that with some kind of affirmation, like, “Hey, girl, how are you?” Or like, “There she is. You are good enough.” Or like, “Hi, beautiful. I am beautiful. I am kind. I am valued.” Just so it's also sending a message.

We know that we can retrain our brains and rewire. As we're doing that self-care, telling yourself almost unconsciously that you are good enough and are important enough to take that time, making sure you use a little higher emotional intelligence, take it to the next level to really make it sink in of why you're doing this. It's because you're worthy, because you want to see yourself, because you care about yourself and you love yourself. 

I think there's a healthy level of narcissism. Self-psychology says that, it's kind of a branch from Freud, but that the self is the center of our universe. This life that we're living, we are the star of our life. There's only one of us. 

And so it's nice to care about the way you look. It's nice to find your personality, love yourself, and I mean ‘self’ with the capital S, of your values, your interests, your hobbies, your friendships, your profession, your passions, as well as what you look like. That's just one expression, one physical expression of what it is. It's the packaging, but it's really not who you are. 

And so, I was wondering too, Dr. Vicki, if you talk to your patients about the motivations for why they're ever getting things done. 

38:34 Julie Falls: That's really beautifully said. Thank you. It really is. 

38:37 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Honestly, what she just said, I think I want that recording on our podcast. I want to listen to that every morning. But I have heard about people verbalizing it to themselves, just whatever it is. 

38:51 Julie Falls: Mindfulness. 

38:51 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I will workout today. I am beautiful. I am worth it. Whatever it is. It might seem really silly and embarrassing, but a lot of neuroscientists are saying that is so powerful and you can rewire your brain to truly believing it. 

It's like gratitude. Once you start to be grateful, you just naturally become grateful for everything. 

And then the answer to your question, I don't ask them what their motivations are, unfortunately, because we don't have time. Although sometimes I feel like I'm more intuitive than maybe some, I can tell when something's up, they're coming in all of a sudden, they want all these things, and then the third time they come in, they tell me, “My husband's leaving me for somebody who's 20 years younger.” 

I say to myself, I don't say it to them, I say, “Oh, God, now I see what's happening.” So I try and not let them fall in the deep end when that's happening and that is sad. I try and be there for them but, again, I have 15, 20, sometimes 30-minute appointments. It's not enough. 

But I should refer those patients to you, and I will.

39:51 Julie Falls: I was just going to say, Sarah should come in-house. And when you flag a particular patient, then we'll get the whole mindfulness component going, which I practice myself and truly believe. You know, you can suddenly look at yourself in a whole new light when you have worked from the outside-in too. I think that that's huge and I love that you included that. I appreciate that.

40:20 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Yeah, it's really that sense of self. I was thinking about it the other day. I was like, “I don't know if I can get to the dermatologist. It's been like nine months since I've done anything.” 

But, really, your sense of self is who you are when you're happy and when you're sad, when you're going to have a success, when you're going to have a failure, when you're single, when you're partnered. And do you still love yourself as is, whether with my wrinkles and without. That's what I was kind of like tapping into for myself just to understand my motivation and kind of double checking is my sense of self pretty secure. 

If I can't get there in nine more months, am I still going to be okay with the way I look with a little bit extra? It's just a different version of me, just like I have silly versions, serious versions, versions with crow’s feet, versions without. Can I just really love who I am inside, because that's the most important thing. 

41:18 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: The only thing I would add to that is if your parents didn't give you that positivity growing up, because some people didn't have ideal childhoods. Stop blaming your parents for not giving that to you. You can give it to yourself. I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I do know that, a lot of times, people are so traumatized by events that might have happened and there is the power within them to make those changes. I think it's really important to do that. 

41:46 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: And if you need help, go to a therapist or get a coach.

41:48 Julie Falls: Amen. Everyone should be in therapy.

41:52 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: Amazing. So wonderful. I feel so positive right now.

41:55 Trina Renea: That was great. Thank you.

41:57 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I love myself with my wrinkles. Do you guys love yourself with your wrinkles?

42:01 Trina Renea: I love myself, wrinkles.

42:02 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: I don’t like myself with my wrinkles, but I’ll deal with it now. That was great advice. Thank you so much, Sarah. 

42:06 Julie Falls: Thank you, Sarah. Wonderful having you. 

42:07 Trina Renea: Thank you. 

42:10 Dr. Vicki Rapaport: And we're going to have all of your information and how to find you on faciallyconscious.com. 

42:14 Trina Renea: Yes. There is a guest profile up for her. 

42:16 Julie Falls: And we'll have you again for sure. 

42:18 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: I would love to talk again. I was just getting started, so thanks for the intro. 

42:22 Trina Renea: Thank you so much. 

42:24 Dr. Sarah Dihmes: Great. 

42:25 Trina Renea: Bye.

[Outro] Get ready to stay in the know with Facially Conscious, the ultimate guide to navigating the overwhelming world of information. We are your trusted co-hosts bringing you the latest and greatest on all things Facially Conscious. 

Have a burning question or idea you want to share? Don't hesitate to email us at info@faciallyconscious.com. We'd love to hear from you. 

And if you're itching to share your own experience with our audience, contact us, and we just may feature you on an upcoming episode. 

Stay tuned for even more insights and inspiration on our website, Faciallyconscious.com, where you can catch up on blog posts and past guest interviews.