The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad?

[Intro] Hey, everyone, welcome to Facially Conscious. I'm Trina Renea, a medically trained
master esthetician here in Los Angeles, and I'm sitting with my rock star co-host, Rebecca
Gadberry, our resident skincare scientist and regulatory and marketing expert. We are here
to help you navigate the sometimes confusing and competitive world of skin care.
Our mission is to provide you with insider knowledge on everything from product
ingredients to medical procedures, lasers, fillers, and ever-changing trends. With our expert
interviews with chemists, doctors, laser reps, and estheticians, you'll be equipped to make
informative decisions before investing in potentially expensive treatments.
It's the Wild West out there, so let's make it easier for you, one episode at a time. Are you
ready to discover the latest and greatest skin care secrets? Tune in and let us be your go-to
girls for all things Facially Conscious.
Let's dive in.
01:09 Trina Renea: Hi, everyone, and welcome back to Facially Conscious. I am Trina Renea, the
esthetician on the show, and I am here with Rebecca Gadberry, our amazing cosmetic
chemist teacher from UCLA and so much more. Our guru.
01:33 Rebecca Gadberry: Thank you, sweetie. Yes, I love to be the authority just on all things,
not just on...
01:42 Trina Renea: Well, I love you being the authority as well, because you do the studying for
me.
01:48 Rebecca Gadberry: You're welcome. I love it, you know it. You love it, you know it. So, we
all love it, so let's start talking about beef tallow. We're going to talk about beef tallow
today, everybody.
One of the big things about beef tallow is it's a really good example of what goes wrong
when people don't understand what's actually going on in the skin. They get a bunch of
things confused and they take the initial feel of something as being how it's going to always
affect the skin.
02:31 Trina Renea: It's just one of those trends that is something that comes in, explodes and
goes away because it's not something that is supposed to be used on our skin.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

2
02:45 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, it's been used on the skin for hundreds, if not thousands of
years, but there's a reason why we've improved, so to speak. There's a reason why we
moved away from it. So we're going to talk about that today.
And there's so many questions from so many people in the audience, from our estheticians
to our consumers, to dermatologists, to cosmetic chemists. Everybody listens to this
podcast. Now, I was really surprised at how popular it has become.
But beyond that, I think we should answer questions for everybody. So, if you have
questions about even if you're a cosmetic chemist and how to formulate with beef tallow,
we're going to be addressing that as well as what's behind this movement and what you can
do as far as your skin is concerned to really help your skin to really deliver what you're
looking for from beef tallow. The beef tallow doesn't actually deliver. Does that make
sense?
03:46 Trina Renea: You're going to explain that, please. The main question is, why are people
turning to beef tallow right now in skin care? Like, how did that happen?
04:00 Rebecca Gadberry: I think what's going on is that there's a big health movement,
wellness movement towards ancestral stuff. Things that our ancestors used, we're going to
go back to because it was good for them so it must be good for us. That isn't the case here.
There's a reason why we moved away from beef tallow, and we're going to talk about that.
There's also a growing skepticism towards synthetic ingredients or what people think of as
synthetic ingredients. If you see a big name that you can't pronounce and you don't
recognize, you automatically think that it's a bad synthetic ingredient.
And there's a lot of natural ingredients that are difficult to say or understand, like
glycyrrhetinic acid and things like that. But beef tallow...
04:54 Trina Renea: What’s that?
04:56 Rebecca Gadberry: That is actually the soothing agent that's in licorice and it's extremely
beneficial to the skin. It's also used as a sweetener, although you need one-four-hundredths
of the amount that you do of sugar because it is so darn sweet. We don't really use it
because it could drive up your blood pressure if you take it internally.
But on the skin, glycyrrhetinic acid is a wonderful soothing ingredient that helps to interrupt
inflammation below the skin surface and really get rid of redness and soothe the skin, etc.
But as far as beef tallow is concerned...

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

3

05:38 Trina Renea: So that's a natural ingredient with a really big name.
05:41 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. That's a natural ingredient with a big name. There's a bunch of
others I don't want to go into, because we're talking about beef tallow here.
And beef tallow is probably one of the easiest things to recognize. Beef, we know what that
is. Tallow, a lot of people know is fat.
05:57 Trina Renea: Fat.
05:57 Rebecca Gadberry: Beef fat, right. So you're putting beef...
06:00 Trina Renea: Lardo.
06:02 Rebecca Gadberry: Lardo on your skin, just like if you took the beef fat out of a
porterhouse steak or out of the meat that you get rid of the fat.
06:12 Trina Renea: So that leftover grease on the plate of my steak, I can just pick it up and rub
it on my skin?
06:21 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, it's not as easy as that. People who are proponents of beef
tallow or beef fat, they actually want it to be purified. You wouldn't just take it directly. You
would purify it because the fat is where antibiotics are kept and hormones are kept. A lot of
pollutants in the environment, if the cattle are not organic or grown organically, that's
where you're going to find all of these “pollutants”. I was going to say toxins but I hate that
word because it isn't accurate, so I'm not going to say toxins. I'm going to say pollutants for
the body. That's where things are stored.
Also, social media influencers, they like to go back to traditional practices. A lot of people
are saying, “Hey, this is great.” It's like where, I hate to say this because I love my
dermatologists. I love all of our dermatologists. But 50 years ago, dermatologists were
recommending Crisco to be put on the skin. If you don't know what Crisco is, it's vegetable
fat and it clogs the pores, just like beef tallow does. So, we want to avoid this stuff.
Also, there's some new premium tallow products that are coming out from the small batch
artisanal skin care companies. They're really promoting it, but we're going to talk about
what percentage if you're going to use beef fat. We'll talk about the percentage you look
for.
Then there's also people who are into sustainability. That's a hard word for me to say. I
don't know why. Sustainability.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

4

08:07 Trina Renea: You can say so many hard words.
08:09 Rebecca Gadberry: I know, and that one sticks. Even diazolidinyl urea I can say, but
sustainability is hard for me.
And this goes to utilizing the whole animal so there's no waste. The thought here is as long
as we're going to kill the cattle, kill the cow, we might as well use all of it. Yeah, there is
something to be said for that.
Now, some people who don't like beef tallow say, “Well, what if we decide to use more
beef tallow on the skin than we have available,” because we're not using as many cows. I
doubt if that will ever happen, because the cosmetic industry, as far as these types of fats
are concerned, would never use more than what's available. I don't think that's a good
reason to not use beef tallow. The whole animal utilization, the indigenous Indians who
lived here before all of the people who live here now were definitely utilizing all of the
animal when they killed an animal. I kind of go along with that.
09:25 Trina Renea: Do you think vegans and vegetarians will use beef tallow?
09:30 Rebecca Gadberry: I don't know. If they don't understand where it comes from, they
might.
09:35 Trina Renea: But the word beef is in there.
09:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah. My mother hated me to say “yeah” and I just said yeah.
Yes, but some companies are only saying tallow. They don't say beef so that can be
confusing. So, we've got all of these cultural shifts. We've got people wanting simple
recognizable ingredients, and a lot of this is coming from the food and wellness industry.
10:13 Trina Renea: We have so many good ingredients that make amazing moisturizers already.
Does beef tallow work differently than other moisturizers to introduce it into the market
like this?
10:27 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes, it works completely differently. As you know and as we've talked
about incessantly over the last few years, where dry skin occurs is in the barrier of the skin
in what's called the stratum corneum. It's the very surface layers of the skin. This barrier is
made by cells lower down. When they die off, they excrete or they push out a bunch of
lipids which are fats but different types of fat than beef tallow.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

5
Between the cells and the lipids, it looks like a brick and mortar wall, with the mortar being
the lipids and the bricks being the cells. Well, when we have these, what you were saying,
modern formulations, we're helping to reestablish that barrier when it gets damaged
because it's the damage of the barrier that causes the skin to be dry.
And what happens is we get holes in the lipids because the cells are not making lipids
properly or the ratio of the lipids, and there's different types of lipids between yourselves.
Some of these people may be familiar with already. They're called ceramides. They're very
popular now. Omegas are very popular. I'm going to identify the whole group in a few
minutes, but when we take a look at the barrier lipids with dry skin, the ratios of these
essential lipids are out of whack. We want to reestablish them. We want to put them back
into the skin at the right ratios and we want to get the cells that make the lipids to make
them in the right ratios.
So that's great, and this is how we're getting better moisturizers without them being greasy
or occlusive.
Tallow, on the other hand, is part of the old-fashioned way to moisturize before we found
out that there was even a barrier of the skin. We thought that the best way to moisturize
was when we had those cells that were peeling back on the skin like dry shingles on a roof,
the best way would be to glue them back down. That's where beef tallow comes from. Beef
tallow is from that thinking that if you've got dry skin, glue the cells down and form what's
called an occlusive or watertight barrier on the surface of the skin to prevent moisture from
evaporating.
13:15 Trina Renea: Kind of like what we do with Aquaphor.
13:16 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, like what we do with Aquaphor. But Aquaphor is a pure form of
this concept and Aquaphor, as far as I know, now contains ceramides and some other lipids.
13:28 Trina Renea: It does, yeah.
13:31 Rebecca Gadberry: So we're looking at I think a much more efficient occlusive as well as
repairing the lipids.
Another issue with tallow, and this also goes back to the old days of moisturizing formulas,
tallow has a high percentage of a fatty acid that's naturally in the skin, by the way, called
stearic acid. And stearic acid, when it's used at high percentages, makes the skin feel really
soft, and that's great.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

6
The first few times that you use stearic acid on the skin, your skin feels really soft. But after
a week or two, maybe three, depending upon your personal skin and how it's formed, the
stearic acid starts to offset that ratio, that I was just talking about, of the lipids and it makes
them out of whack. When it causes them to be out of whack, so to speak, you start to get
dry skin.
Initially, while the tallow may feel great on the skin because of the high stearic acid, the
stearic acid actually causes the skin to be drier. So you wind up needing more of the tallow
with the stearic acid, just like you do with a high stearic acid moisturizer. You need more of
it on your skin because your skin starts to feel drier and drier. So you might use a more
gentler cleanser that might be an oil, even, or a lotion rather than a foaming cleanser, but
that's not what's causing the problem. What's causing the problem is the stearic acid. So
you put more and more on of the cream or the beef tallow and you're getting more and
more stearic acid and you're creating a vicious cycle where your skin becomes dependent
upon the beef tallow.
I've been talking to estheticians, and I know that you see this too. When we're working with
clients that have been using beef tallow after a few weeks or months, the skin takes on a
rancid smell.
15:52 Trina Renea: Disgusting.
15:55 Rebecca Gadberry: It's very musky. It's an animal scent, especially during and after
steaming. It smells like you've got animal fat on your skin. You've got more clogged pores
than you usually do.
And the skin, after a few weeks of use, becomes tight and dry and flaking. Have you seen
that?
16:15 Trina Renea: Yes. And I'm just remembering back to a time when coconut oil became
very popular and people were taking tubs of coconut oil and just using them as a
moisturizer. I watched this exact same situation happen where, in a course of two months,
three months of me seeing the same client, I would see those more clogged pores, more
dry, tight, flaky skin. Same thing with that pure coconut oil, which then disappeared.
But, yeah, that's the same kind of thing that's happening with the beef tallow, besides the
stink.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

7
16:52 Rebecca Gadberry: And it's the same type of problem because coconut oil has a high
amount of another fatty acid, which also disrupts that balance, that very delicate balance of
the barrier lipids. It's just trading one problem for another.
Occlusives like tallow create a protective layer that temporarily relieves the symptoms of
dryness, because they're occlusive. But the longer you use them, the more problems you
get with your skin.
The new way is we address the root causes of the barrier damage. You come to rely on the
products less and less and you start to use just a little bit as opposed to the amount that
you were initially using. And your skin feels softer after a few days, usually, but not maybe
initially, depending upon the formula.
This is why I caution people, and I say that tallow is a really good example of when you don't
do this. I caution people against testing a product on the back of your hand in the store or, if
you are putting a brand together, testing it at the manufacturer or at your cosmetic chemist
and saying, "Oh, that feels really good." And then thinking that, that, okay, it's always going
to feel that way. These products need to be tested for at least a month, if not longer,
because it takes a while for clogged pores to show up but it also could take a while for
dryness to show up due to the moisturizer.
That's why I like brands that offer a bottom-of-the-jar guarantee, because it allows you to
use a full four-to-six weeks, maybe eight weeks, depending upon the product, so that you
could really understand whether it's going to work for your skin or not.
18:53 Trina Renea: Yes, I agree.
One thing you said about tallow is that it's similar to sebum, but you said that isn't a good
thing. Why is that?
19:05 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. Because people who don't understand the skin think that
sebum and the lipids in your skin barrier are the same. They're not. Sebum is made by
sebaceous glands or oil glands in the skin. It's made of something called triglycerides and
some other natural chemicals that your body makes, biochemicals, and it's used to coat the
skin.
We really don't understand what sebum actually does yet.
19:39 Trina Renea: It carries the dead skin out of the pores.
19:42 Rebecca Gadberry: Oh, it does, except when it gets stopped in the...

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

8

19:45 Trina Renea: Except when it gets stuck.
19:47 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah, when it gets stuck.
19:48 Trina Renea: We call it sticky sebum.
19:50 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes, I call it that too, little sticky sebum. It starts to cause the cells to
accumulate in the middle of the pore and we get what's called a microcomedone or a little
microscopic clogged pore.
20:09 Trina Renea: The other thing that you guys may know that comedone is called is a
blackhead.
20:15 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. That's when it gets bigger and you can see it from the top.
Sebum is part of that blackhead. It's part of what oxidizes when it comes in contact in air.
Well, if tallow is similar to sebum, then it follows that tallow is comedogenic or clogs pores,
which the proponents of tallow say...
20:38 Trina Renea: Interesting.
20:40 Rebecca Gadberry: The proponents of tallow say, “No, it doesn't clog pores.” People who
have used beef tallow know that it clogs pores. It's very different from what you actually
need to repair the barrier of the skin.
20:57 Trina Renea: You can trust us or you can try it yourself. When you get your clogged
pores, you'll realize that and stop using it.
21:05 Rebecca Gadberry: Stop using it, yes.
We don't moisturize by mimicking sebum. We moisturize by fixing the skin barrier lipids.
When we talk about the makeup of the barrier lipids, I've mentioned ceramides, which are
about half of all the barrier lipids, but you also have cholesterol in there to help make up
cell membranes and to help make up the barrier itself. That's 25. And then the free fatty
acids, like the stearic acid, is 10% to 15%. We've also got omegas in there at about 3% to
4%.
So we need that ratio to be maintained for the barrier to be healthy. If we get too much
free fatty acids and we overcompensate for their presence, then the ceramides go down,
the cholesterol goes down, and we don't have a healthy barrier anymore.
This is how tallow works to disrupt the barrier of the skin and the clogged pores.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

9
22:18 Trina Renea: What does science tell us about pure beef tallow as a moisturizer, I mean, in
science?
22:24 Rebecca Gadberry: There's no scientific evidence that it does anything. It hasn't been
studied and there's no studies comparing tallow to the modern moisturizers that work with
your skin lipids. Nobody has done a side-by-side comparison. There's no real scientific
evidence of the benefits of tallow.
What we have seen is that because tallow has such a high percentage of stearic acid, we
have seen scientific studies of stearic acid on the skin and what we see now in the latest
studies in the last few years is that a high quantity of stearic acid disrupts the barrier. That's
not what people want to hear but that's what the actual scientific evidence for stearic acid
and, therefore, beef tallow shows.
23:17 Trina Renea: I feel like this is one of those, this beef tallow trend, like it hits the market
really hard, a bunch of people buy it, then they realize it clogs their pores then they don't
re-buy it, and then it goes away.
23:32 Rebecca Gadberry: They realize that it dries your skin out and causes skin redness after a
while.
23:37 Trina Renea: It's like six months, and then it filters out onto the next thing. But anyways,
let's keep going.
23:45 Rebecca Gadberry: The weird thing about that is, is that because it can take a few weeks
to a few months for skin to turn red and dry and flaky, people don't associate it with the
beef tallow a lot of times.
23:59 Trina Renea: They think it's something else they're using.
24:01 Rebecca Gadberry: Right.
24:03 Trina Renea: We're here to tell you it's not.
24:04 Rebecca Gadberry: It's the beef tallow.
24:11 Trina Renea: No scientific validation on that.
24:13 Rebecca Gadberry: No, there isn't. If there's any, it would be before the 1950s when beef
tallow was common. But we didn't know that the skin barrier even existed until 1979.
24:29 Trina Renea: Wow, that's crazy! I didn't know that.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

10

24:33 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah.
24:34 Trina Renea: 1979.
24:37 Rebecca Gadberry: It took 25 years before knowing that the barrier was present. It took a
long time for cosmetic science to change the way we approach skin moisturization. So, we
need to keep that understanding that we now have.
Now, there are some ways that you could formulate, and this is for the cosmetic chemists in
the audience. You can rely on beef tallow as your emulsifier, because that's why you're
using stearic acid. If you want people to use beef tallow or your consumers are interested in
it, the beef tallow can help with the emulsification of the creams and the lotions, can help
to, for those who don't know what emulsification is, help to marry the oil and the water in
the product to hold them together.
It can also help to soften the skin, to give an initial softness from the cream or the lotion.
And it can also offer part of that ratio that is needed to maintain a healthy barrier.
But you also want to do 50% ceramides and some type of sterol, either cholesterol or
phytosterol from plants, at about 25%. You could put in your hydrators, your humectants,
your skin softeners, your emollients.
Then when you work with your preservative system, you not only need your traditional
preservative system for microbes, your antimicrobials, but you also need some really good
antioxidants to keep these lipids fresh, especially the beef tallow, so that it doesn't oxidize
and start irritating the skin.
26:32 Trina Renea: Are you telling them that because some of their clients may want beef
tallow in their moisturizer, and so this is a way to put it in properly?
26:43 Rebecca Gadberry: Yes. Absolutely. That would be my guidelines as a cosmetic scientist.
26:52 Trina Renea: Okay. What about skincare pros like me and others in the industry? How
should we talk to our clients about beef tallow? I think I know, but let's hear it from your
mouth.
27:07 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, there's a lot to be said, and I know you do this, to acknowledge
the cultural and historical significance of these ingredients that everybody's interested in.
Validate their interests, right? And then you want to educate them.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

11
27:26 Trina Renea: You don't want to say like, “Oh, it's really bad. Just don't do it.” You want to
be like, “Okay, you're interested in this. I get it.” And validate it.
27:38 Rebecca Gadberry: Yeah. “I get it. I see you. I hear you,” type of thing.
Then educate them, though, about the difference. You can use what we call the
Feel-Felt-Found reeducation technique, which is, “I understand how you feel. I felt the same
way or I had the same interest in beef tallow, until I found out...” and then you go into the
difference between sebum and the barrier lipids and the old-fashioned way to moisturize
with occlusives and gluing down the dead cells versus repairing the barrier and making it
healthy again.
28:21 Trina Renea: That's the difference between putting something on top of the skin, which is
your barrier, and just sealing it down, as in occlusivity, versus getting a lipid or some kind of
oil in between the dead skin cells to help actually repair that damage that is in there where
the oil is missing.
28:44 Rebecca Gadberry: It's not oil, it's lipids.
28:46 Trina Renea: Lipids, yes.
28:47 Rebecca Gadberry: Okay. These lipids can be in plant oils, they can be in your
moisturizers, your creams or lotions. And again, we're looking more for a total
representation or a total presence of the lipids for the ceramides, the cholesterol, and the
fatty acids and the omegas. We want them all in there. If you can't get them all in there,
make sure that what you're using has a high ceramide content. You want to have a lot of
ceramides. We definitely want to move away from the high stearic acids.
Also, I would share what I'm seeing as an esthetician, or if you're in sales and you talk to the
public, work with them on selecting skin care, I talk to them about what you're seeing or
what other people in your position are seeing. Again, that's that smelly skin and it is clogged
pores more than usual, and it's the dry type, flaking skin after a few weeks of use, and that
redness and that discomfort. I'd let them know what lies ahead.
You also need to take into consideration that there are skin types that cannot use beef
tallow. Unfortunately, some of those people, like people with acne, have been told that
beef tallow is good for acne, and it isn't. It just plain isn't.
30:22 Trina Renea: Right. At all.

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

12
30:25 Rebecca Gadberry: If somebody is going to tell you that, you want to see the study that
shows that it is, not just take somebody's word for it. We know that beef tallow clogs pores.
There are studies to that effect. If there are studies showing that it doesn't clog pores,
please send them to us at info@faciallyconscious.com. We would really love to see them
and we can publish them on our blog
30:52 Trina Renea: Okay. I want to round this up, round this out. I mean, that pretty much sums
that up. We kind of know what to say, but what ethical and practical issues should people
think about with tallow products? I feel like people who— like, animal rights and things like
that.
31:23 Rebecca Gadberry: Well, again, if we're going to be eating beef, those people who eat
beef are probably comfortable with tallow. Those people who don't eat beef are not
comfortable with tallow, I would not think. But a lot of people are not eating beef because
they are concerned about the environmental impact of the cattle production, even if they're
being grown and ranched with sustainable practices.
So, the overall footprint of animal products is very significant. Even if it's grown grass-fed,
humanely raised, organically, substantial land, water, and food resource are contributed
towards growing grass-fed cattle. And because it's better for animal welfare and soil health,
they're going to live longer so they produce more methane emissions that add to the
thinning of the ozone layer.
They also, because of the grass, they fart more as they're digesting the grass. So, it's going
to go up and the carbon footprint extends through the entire supply chain. We've got the
land clearing for the pasture, we've got water usage, we've got the methane emissions,
we've got energy for processing and rendering the tallow to make sure that it's pure enough
to use. And then we have to pay for the transportation of the finished products.
Again, you might be reducing a little in some areas, but when you consider the supply chain,
it's as impacted, if not more, depending upon what part of the supply chain you're looking
at.
33:22 Trina Renea: But that just goes for cattle in general, because tallow comes from it. That's
why we're talking about that.
33:32 Rebecca Gadberry: Right. But if you're thinking organic tallow is safer than regular tallow,
that’s not the case.
33:43 Trina Renea: And if you weren't going to use beef tallow...

The Great Beef Tallow Debate: Ancient Remedy or Modern Fad

13

33:46 Rebecca Gadberry: I mean safer for the environment, I'm sorry.
33:49 Trina Renea: Yes. If you weren't going to use beef tallow and you're like, “Okay, this
sounds like a troubled ingredient. I want something equally as good that doesn't clog the
pores and make you more dry and red and irritated and doesn't make my skin smell.” What
can people turn to?
34:06 Rebecca Gadberry: They could turn to the more modern formulas for barrier repair and
barrier health. You should be working with a skin care professional. Let them guide you
towards the right moisturizer for your skin. Even if you go in and let's say you can't afford a
facial, a lot of estheticians will meet with you for an hour consultation and help guide you to
the correct products for your skin.
There's also people online that are estheticians who are professionals, not influencers. No, I
don't like a lot of influencers. I like the influencers who know what they're talking about and
there's a lot of influencers who don't, so I have issues with that. But find somebody that
really knows the skin. Go to them and ask.
You can also write in to Facially Conscious and Trina and I can help answer some of your
questions for you. We always like to work with you and work with you privately as well.
Again, that's info@faciallyconscious.com.
35:22 Trina Renea: Thanks for joining us today, everybody, on our little rant about beef tallow.
Until next time.
35:30 Rebecca Gadberry: Until next time, yes.
[Outro] Get ready to stay in the know with Facially Conscious, the ultimate guide to navigating
the overwhelming world of information. We are your trusted co-hosts bringing you the
latest and greatest on all things Facially Conscious.
Have a burning question or idea you want to share? Don't hesitate to email us at
info@faciallyconscious.com. We'd love to hear from you.
And if you're itching to share your own experience with our audience, contact us, and we
just may feature you on an upcoming episode.
Stay tuned for even more insights and inspiration on our website, Faciallyconscious.com,
where you can catch up on blog posts and past guest interviews.